Dear me.
What a bunch of immature, pathetic, impatient, selfish, rude, arrogant, ungrateful little shits.
The backlash over the Zelda Gamespot 8.8 review by rabid Nintendo fanboys was such a fantastic demonstration of idiocy and herd mentality that, frankly, it was amusing. Particularly as 8.8 was an over generous score.
But yesterday, May 16th 2007, the day of the Halo 3 beta – I think equals it. Microsoft and Halo fanboys (and, let’s face it, if you know your FPSs then you know Halo ain’t all that, just like you know Zelda ain’t all that if you know your adventure games) showed themselves to be just as horrible a breed of human beings as the Nintendo fanboys.
Comments, complaints, threats, talk of how gamers are “suffering” or Crackdown owners who bought the game to play the beta were “ripped off” because their little Halo 3 button didn’t light up the instant they wanted it to, arguments about how everyone at Microsoft, Bungie and even Real Time Worlds must suck and not know anything about development..
..all because the download was hours (not days, not weeks, not months, not cancelled, not broken) late.
So much hate, hurt and spite thrown around because babys didn’t get their instant, free gratification that they felt they were owed.
All this energy and angst just to play an unfinished game.
Gamers of the world – well done! you’ve proved you’re still a bunch of selfish crybabies that can’t be trusted to think before you open your mouths.
Me? I’d rather play Halflife again. I lent my copy of Crackdown to a colleague yesterday and really don’t want to spend any time exposed to the ranting of Halo fans based on their recent outburst.
Funniest day in gaming for some time!
For me, Half Life 2 is excellent, best FPS out, though for multiplayer at least, Halo is king.
Not better than Metal Gear Online! (though i would say that wouldn’t i?*)
* It’s still true.
(looks down)
Nice preview feature!
The fundamental problem is that its these people who help keep your company afloat…
I know what you’re saying Kiyuri-san.
Let me assure you, when they’re giving me their cash I have nothing but the utmost respect and patience for them. Not only that, when they buy the games my company makes they clearly have good taste and a sense of humour.
However, paying my employer $60 once every two years doesn’t earn them a free pass to act like a selfish wanker for the rest of their lives without me getting to talk about it on my personal website.
Respect is earned, not bought.
And I fully agree with it. It’s stupid mentality to think such a small transaction gives you the right to act like you own the company. I mean they’re not stockholders, are they?
I encountered a similar backlash on the internet over a delay on an Xbox Live dashboard update.
Even though I questioned their right to piss and moan considering it was a free update done for their benefit and enjoyment they were very quick to snap back that they were paying for the service and thus it entitled them to say and do whatever they please. They’re just think they’re too high and mighty, but I’m sure you know this already. I suppose gamers are the best and worst aspect of the whole industry.
Although I agree these outbursts reeked of ridiculousness and arrogance, I still have to say that the customer has every right to make complaints about developers in the games industry. The fact is that these companies are making huge profits out of the consumer. I have no problem with that, but that comes at a price; and that price is a critical customer.
Hey, if they sold games at cost price or cheaper then there would be no right to complain. But it’s a business and the upshot of that is that people expect high standards, even if in some cases, the complaints are completely out of proportion.
Frasier,
Complaining about something that’s free and certainly isn’t a standard practice on consoles is fucking absurd.
Let me repeat myself: these idiots are complaining about something that is FREE. Not only is it free, it’s OPTIONAL. It’s also 15 hours late. In the scale of things, what the fuck is there to complain about?
If people want to complain about something that’s FREE, OPTIONAL and a LITTLE bit delayed whilst displaying the usual arrogance and ignorance of ONLY seeing things from their own selfish point of view and never considering just what a massively complex (and costly) excersize this actually is then they’re selfish, ignorant little shits.
The fact that there’s a massive amount of selfish ignorant shits all shouting and crying at the same time making a huge, ugly noise does NOT make them credible and does NOT make them right.
Anyone complaining about the free beta should simply ask Microsoft for a refund. Maybe that would push a little perspective in their fat faces.
Statistically, games are cheaper now than they’ve ever been and they’re also more expensive to make than they’ve ever been. Many games, irrespective of final quality take years and millions to make. With a typical retail of £40 to £50 they’re considerably cheaper than games of ten years ago which were smaller, more limited in scope and often retailed for £60. And that’s not taking a decade’s inflation into account.
So, once again, people complaining about the cost of games do so out of ignorance and a complete lack of perspective. They are complaining simply because they see themselves as the ONLY part of the equation.
I’m not saying that they’re not an important part of that equation but I definitely see complaint coming from people that think ONLY of themselves and NOTHING of anything else that goes into understand the cost or value of games. They can argue “Why should I care about that?” and I’d respond that, unless you want to appear a selfish, ignorant pleb then, when you argue about something you should at least make the effort to understand it.
So, Frasier, in summary: games ARE cheaper than they’ve ever been and you get miles more bang for your buck. If game prices were fixed to inflation or costs you’d be paying over £100 a game by now. Game prices also threaten to go up due to astronimcal development costs and the sheer weight of expectation and demand for quality from the typically complaining consumer. Methods such as in-game advertising, episodic gaming and micropayments are systems being explored to offset these costs and prevent them from reaching every consumer.
But, hey, all the complainers know all about that. They understand their topic in full. Don’t they?
“Let me repeat myself: these idiots are complaining about something that is FREE. Not only is it free, its OPTIONAL. Its also 15 hours late. In the scale of things, what the fuck is there to complain about?”
Oh I agree, as I said in this case. The complaints were massively out of proportion, and I myself wouldn’t be bothered about what was free, especially, as you say, it isn’t standard practice for industry to give consumers products for free. I was making the wider point about complaints, and that they are the right of the consumer, just like in any other industry. If we’re going to talk about the games industry as an industry then the upshot is there will be complaints, and some of them will be completely ridiculous.
“Statistically, games are cheaper now than theyve ever been and theyre also more expensive to make than theyve ever been. Many games, irrespective of final quality take years and millions to make. With a typical retail of £40 to £50 theyre considerably cheaper than games of ten years ago which were smaller, more limited in scope and often retailed for £60. And thats not taking a decades inflation into account.”
All completely understood, but at all not relevant to what I’m saying. Game prices are cheap because the developers want to sell more units, it’s standard practice of all industry. If the developers were operating a charity service then there would be no complaints. You don’t see people complaining about Oxfam shops do you? But they are not. They sell games at a profit. I am not for one minute complaining about that. But by doing so that makes games manufacture an industry. And by the virtue of it being an industry some complaints are justified.
I am looking at this purely from a business perspective, rather than looking at games as being something more than merely a product that sell to make money. I totally understand if others see it differently.
“So, Frasier, in summary: games ARE cheaper than theyve ever been and you get miles more bang for your buck. If game prices were fixed to inflation or costs youd be paying over £100 a game by now. Game prices also threaten to go up due to astronimcal development costs and the sheer weight of expectation and demand for quality from the typically complaining consumer. Methods such as in-game advertising, episodic gaming and micropayments are systems being explored to offset these costs and prevent them from reaching every consumer.”
But the reason for that change is because, and call me a cynic, developers want to keep unit price down so games would be bought. It’s the classic Microsoft formula; cheap prices and sell a lot rather than sell a few at expensive prices. The reason games aren’t £100 now is far more that there is more competition rather than anything altruistic on the part of developers.
Frankly, Frasier, I don’t have a problem with consumerism. But I don’t agree that’s what’s going on here. Most complaints that I see aren’t from consumers. They are from people complaining about a product they neither own nor intend to own and, as such, that means they’re not consumers of that product.
Take the cute example of the PlayStation 3. Everyone loves to have a go at it and complain about this or that. A (well publicised, small) fraction of those people are actually consumers. The rest are children complaining because the internet and anonymity means they can spend their entire lives bitching about whatever they like and never take responsibility for what they say.
People can say “I never buy EA games but I hate EA and what they do”. Well, if you never buy their games you’re not a consumer of their product. So I don’t care about your complaints because they’re empty.
The ratio of complaints to actual consumerism is way way out of line. And, typically, these complaints are neither construction nor directed at anyone that can do anything about them – people are simply complaining for the sake of it and are so used to speaking that they don’t even CARE that people aren’t listening – only to use that as a fault with the other party about how EA, Microsoft, Sony, whoever should be traipsing around blogs and whiny message boards reading the complaints of these so-called consumers.
If a consumer has a complaint there is a correct and often effective way of communicating that complaint to the appropriate party.
That isn’t what goes on. Most of these people aren’t consumers and they aren’t interested in someone acting on their complaints – they just like the sound of their own voice and riding the easy choice of popular opinion rather than thinking about what it is they’re complaining about.
I’m not saying this is the case 100% of the time but it’s in the high nineties. You don’t have to look very hard on the internet to see whiney, unsubstantiated, ill-thought out, self-centered, blame-shifting complaining from the games community. On the other hand, you have to look very VERY hard to find a constructive complaint from a genuine consumer directed to the appropriate people. Even my FORE! topic, although it goes further than “This game sucks!” by some distance, fails to be constructive (ie: consider a solution to all the issues) or presented to those that could make a difference.
Of course, gamers have the power to change this and to prove they care about what they’re talking about by doing things the RIGHT way. So far, the overwhelming majority of the culture refuses to do that – favouring whiney complaints and pointless photoshopping as the ‘proper’ way to make a complaint.
People DO listen but until gamers make themselves credible or learn how to present a complaint without sounding like a selfish spoiled brat then, frankly, not a lot will happen that isn’t motivated by some dollar signs. And if gamers allow that to continue to happen then they only have THEMSELVES to blame – but they wont, as internet anonymity has shown they NEVER take responsibility for their actions and, instead, just blame something else.
It’s time to grow up. If you want things done the right way, you need to start doing things the right way yourselves. Acting like babies will result in being treated like them.
“Frankly, Frasier, I dont have a problem with consumerism. But I dont agree thats whats going on here. Most complaints that I see arent from consumers. They are from people complaining about a product they neither own nor intend to own and, as such, that means theyre not consumers of that product.”
No, but they’re consumers of the games industry. Which by implication means they have a right to complain about the practices of said industry and the products that are released by the industry as a whole. Whether it’s right for them to comment on products they do not own is very much open for debate, as obviously they will not have much experience of the product if they do not.
“People can say I never buy EA games but I hate EA and what they do. Well, if you never buy their games youre not a consumer of their product. So I dont care about your complaints because theyre empty.”
Rightly or wrongly that position is defended by EA’s supposed “greed” and lack of imagination. People still have a right to express that position, however, and I agree with you 100% with you on this, wrong they are. They are consumers of a wider product, which entitles complaint in some form. Agreed, the validity of that complaint is hugely reduced if and when a consumer comments in said manner, there is no doubt about that, but I argue the right exists.
“Take the cute example of the PlayStation 3. Everyone loves to have a go at it and complain about this or that. A (well publicised, small) fraction of those people are actually consumers. The rest are children complaining because the internet and anonymity means they can spend their entire lives bitching about whatever they like and never take responsibility for what they say.”
In the case of the PS3, the feedback of gamers was I think valid, especially in relation to price point. Some of the complaints however were frankly bizarre and in this case I agree the ignorance of the people making them was made brutally apparent.
“The ratio of complaints to actual consumerism is way way out of line. And, typically, these complaints are neither construction nor directed at anyone that can do anything about them – people are simply complaining for the sake of it and are so used to speaking that they dont even CARE that people arent listening – only to use that as a fault with the other party about how EA, Microsoft, Sony, whoever should be traipsing around blogs and whiny message boards reading the complaints of these so-called consumers.”
Absolutely, I’m not saying these complaints are either effective or well put, what I’m arguing about is that a consumer of the games industry has the right make the complaints.
I suppose the point about the games industry is that it is more emotive than many industries, so you are going to get a lot of complaints that in most industries the consumer wouldn’t bother to make. For example, many people are consumers of washing machines. But they don’t have a raging fit because a new model is a few hours late.
“Im not saying this is the case 100% of the time but its in the high nineties. You dont have to look very hard on the internet to see whiney, unsubstantiated, ill-thought out, self-centered, blame-shifting complaining from the games community. On the other hand, you have to look very VERY hard to find a constructive complaint from a genuine consumer directed to the appropriate people. Even my FORE! topic, although it goes further than This game sucks! by some distance, fails to be constructive (ie: consider a solution to all the issues) or presented to those that could make a difference.”
Complaint does not have to be constructive. If you were treated badly at a resteraunt you would complain. You wouldn’t necessarily offer advice to the manager to make it better would you?
“Of course, gamers have the power to change this and to prove they care about what theyre talking about by doing things the RIGHT way. So far, the overwhelming majority of the culture refuses to do that – favouring whiney complaints and pointless photoshopping as the proper way to make a complaint.”
Sadly, this is true of most culture. What is also true is that the general population are very cynical of big business, and believe that they do not listen to what they have to say. Because that’s the case, not many properly realised complaints are made. And, by consequence of this, the companies are yet again seen to be uncaring. This is why Nintendo attempts to pretend it is somehow not a huge corparation out there to make money, which, of course, it is.